Joshua Brummel: So we are live for another fantastic week here for our main weekly live. And I think this fits; It will be slightly different but it will fit squarely in our automation series. The last couple of weeks we’ve been talking about using software, specifically the therapy flow hub for automating your business, but we want to bring in a kind of special guest, someone who has experience automating the slightly different standpoint; doing something that Attilio and I highly leveraged to grow our business. And many, many other therapists and counselors leverage and you should be doing this as well. Without further ado, I want to introduce you to Evalyne and we’re going to be talking about the process, the company, and just the overall facet of hiring virtual assistants to help you run your therapy practice. Evalyne.

Attilio Di Nunno: Hi Evalyne.

Evalyne Fagan: Hi there. Thank you for having me.

Joshua Brummel: Of course. How’s your day going so far?

Evalyne Fagan: Alright. It’s a little gloomy over here in Texas, but how about yourselves?

Joshua Brummel: Sunny today…

Evalyne Fagan: That’s nice.

Joshua Brummel: But it’s been gloomy for the last couple of weeks, that’s for sure.

Attilio Di Nunno: Josh and I, we have the luxury of actually being together today. Usually we work apart so we’re like working right next to each other…yeah.

Joshua Brummel: Well, tell us a little bit about yourself, your company, and kind of how you get into it. Tell us a little bit about your story about getting involved with virtual assistants for counselors and therapists.

Evalyne Fagan: Yeah, so I am the founder and owner of Elevate You: a virtual assistant company. How I started my VA journey… my journey to becoming a VA I actually kind of just stumbled upon in a state of panic. When I had my second child, my daughter, I didn’t want to have to leave her in daycare or with anyone. I felt like I lost a lot of time with my son, so I wanted to stay at home for my daughter. And that was my number one priority. So I searched and applied to every work at home job on Indeed that I could find and I landed an agency that specialized in virtual assistants handling therapy practices. And so for the last like four years I’ve only worked with therapists and I’ve broadened over into like dieticians.

Joshua Brummel: That’s cool. That’s great. And we know there are some people here that might not get it. Tell us a little bit about like what is a virtual assistant and we’ll start there.

Evalyne Fagan: Well, a virtual assistant is basically like an admin assistant but virtually. They can wear a lot of hats; we wear a lot of hats. I have been a practice manager VA, scheduling VA, HR VA, content creator, anything and everything that involves business. So we can, I like to categorize my VAs into admin or social media or the hybrid of the two.

Attilio Di Nunno: Yeah, that’s great. When it comes to hiring a virtual assistant for the first time, so these are people that we can assign, like certain tasks, right? They can give them really whatever and the idea is that they’re just virtual right? When it comes to like hiring these VAs. What’s sort of like the transition process that you’ll find like a therapist in where they’ll be like, I need a VA. Like who is the person that just is like, “okay, now is my breaking point. It’s time to get that VA.” Like what does that breaking point look like? And how do you feel they like they know it’s time to get one.

Evalyne Fagan: So I know therapists and business owners are like… they’re helpers. So many helpers and business owners may not know when to ask for help, or ask for the support that they need. And having their own virtual assistant, that would be an extension of themselves and provide them relief and avoid that burnout that could eventually come if they just keep doing everything themselves. So usually people start to think about having a VA when they’re so burnt out that they don’t even enjoy what they signed up to do with their business or their profession.

Joshua Brummel: And I’m guessing if a therapist is watching this right now and they’re feeling a little bit burned out, this should sort of be like the light bulb. “Oh, maybe I should like outsource or like hire a virtual assistant.” However, in your experience what would have been some cues or like check engine lights that a therapist can maybe look at or clue into, so that to hire a virtual assistant before hitting burnout isn’t the only indication that they should do it.

Evalyne Fagan: Are you saying like if there isn’t right virtual assistant, is that what you’re asking? Like, where do you find them? Or…

Joshua Brummel: What are some other indications maybe before they hit burnout, that show therapists that they should be hiring a virtual assistant?

Evalyne Fagan: If they’re spending more time with their business instead of their families or their hobbies or anything else that they love to do… That it is just purely business you wake up and you’re thinking, and you dream about the business first off, and then you go to sleep worrying about the business, if you do fall asleep.

Attilio Di Nunno: Yeah, then maybe it’s a good time to hire someone.

Joshua Brummel: That’s for certain

Attilio Di Nunno: When it comes to so so “I’m feeling overwhelmed now, starting to feel overwhelmed, starting to start to get into that burnout range as a therapist.” What do you feel is like the big distinguishing factor for using a virtual assistant versus like hiring someone like maybe US based or overseas like what was kind of that distinguishing factor and then why would I choose a VA versus someone else, something else in house?

Evalyne Fagan: Well, one in house, you’re responsible for them as far as overhead costs. You don’t have that responsibility when you hire a VA. It can be a limited amount of hours. You can be like, “Hey, I only want to hire you for this task.” And if you just spend 10 hours a month, 20 hours a month… That’s all you pay for like you only pay for the hours that’s usually how a lot of virtual assistants work anyway. For like an in-house admin assistant. You have to basically pay them for 8-5 you have to provide them with all the overhead costs, a place to stay, you know or work. You know anything else will need to do their jobs, but he already has that. So cost wise and financial wise, it’s wiser.

Joshua Brummel: So, the context for that person to be successful is mostly provided by the virtual assistant organization, rather than the burden of that being on the business owner typically.

Evalyne Fagan: So a lot of agencies like my own we do a lot of the training ourselves and a lot of VAs have experience and are seasoned, so they have already been trained and they have the processes in their heads with streamlining, adding value to your business.

Joshua Brummel: And maybe that’s a good time for them to break down some of the most common activities, tasks, functions, that therapists could immediately outsource to a virtual assistant.

Evalyne Fagan: Like I said, I like to divide or categorize these into admin or social media and an admin virtual assistant can do anything from like general tasks like documentation, calendar, and emai,l inbox management, like project management and data entry, research any of that stuff they can schedule, talk to your clients. Oh, and with social media, you can have your VA do Webdesign, help with the copyright, you know keyword research, SEOs, just in general content creation. They know how to do Canva usually, the scheduling, online engagement, designing and pushing newsletters, I mean, there’s so much that a VA can do.

Attilio Di Nunno: Sounds like you don’t need a credential to do right.

Evalyne Fagan: Yeah, yeah.

Joshua Brummel: Yeah. That makes a lot of…

Attilio Di Nunno: So in like 1 hour of therapy. If you’re making like $100, $150, $200 bucks in an hour. You can pretty much pay for an assistant to help you do like 2-6 hours of work that you would otherwise have to do for yourself. A lot of good well-run practice. Is that a fair statement?

Evalyne Fagan: Yes, definitely is a fair statement. Because not only that, your time is now free, you’re much more relieved, and you can do your work better in that one hour of, you know, service for that Client.

Joshua Brummel: Whenever I’ve hired a VA to help run our organization. It’s always for one of two personal reasons, either “A” My own time is so constricted, that I need to leverage someone else’s time to grow my business. Or “B” my own time is so constricted, that I need to leverage someone else’s time in order to be away from my business. So kind of kind of what you said earlier, like if they’re thinking about it, feeling about, drinking about it, drinking too much coffee to function about it? Like…

Evalyne Fagan: When coffee no longer works…

Joshua Brummel: Yeah.

Attilio Di Nunno: So when it comes to, like managing virtual assistants, like I’m looking at hiring, like yes, it’s great to get it like off the plate right? But then there’s like this added thing that’s always like, stressful. It’s like managing the person or like it still is going to take time. We still have to train them and stuff to like, keep them accountable. Like I still have to approve the stuff. How do you overcome the management gap or like the expectations and accountability gap? How do you kind of manage that and make that work for your therapists?

Evalyne Fagan: So if and when a therapist decides to hire a VA communication is key. You got to establish how you want to communicate your primary way of communication, and implementing and kind of project management tool like like Trello, Asana, Clickup, Slack, any type of communication tool that will help you connect and where they don’t always have to like, ask you what’s going on with a project or a task, they can see it. They can see that it’s being completed or it’s in process or if you have any questions, so it’s communication is key, basically.

Attilio Di Nunno: Do you feel like most therapists have something like that put in place already?

Evalyne Fagan: No.

Attilio Di Nunno: Like Slack or Trello…It’s pretty important right? Like especially if you’re communicating with like, a team in general, right? We use Slack like crazy. Slack is like where I where I house and run everything pretty much and it like totally like shortcuts time, it does so good. I love slack. And I was actually bringing up on a call the other day where it’s like, listen, like you have core software’s it’s like, you’ve got your CRM to manage your marketing and sales efforts. And then you’ve got your EMR to manage your like therapy, but then you need to have some type of like communication channel, and I was just boasting about Slack. But like, there’s certain like, there’s like a stack of things that you should have as a business owner and maybe, maybe it’s like, a simple thing, but once it’s in place, it’s like, well, Slack is really really simple, but it’s as simple to have like multiple software’s, but understanding how important is for your business success ,and your like own sanity. I feel like it’s just like something that it’s worth just putting together anyway, like you should just have something like that even as a solo practitioner, like especially one other person helping out.

Evalyne Fagan: And those types of tools, it helps clearly define what you expect and what you intend your VA to take care of for you. So just organizes things.

Attilio Di Nunno: Yeah.

Joshua Brummel: As we’re walking through this I’ve seen a couple of major themes. So #1 if like, you’re overwhelmed, you’re burnt out, if you’re just not feeling great, it’s a good indication that maybe a virtual assistant is a good solution and a good starting point. #2, you’re probably going to be outsourcing admin tasks or like marketing and creative tasks. And so that could be social media creation and other things, like billion emails and a lot of that stuff, and maybe, you know, if you’re a therapist, you look at the work that you are sucking up the time, but maybe you’re the one that’s sucking up the most amount of emotional energy, because I know for some therapists, emails, don’t hug them. And for some therapists, it’s a death trap, so they should get it off their plate because it’s costing them more than just time. And then, lastly, communication is key. And I’m assuming that you guys probably provide some recommendations, some good setup, but at the end of the day, know that without good communication, and good expectations around whatever tasks are being completed, it’s probably going to fall apart, right? Let’s say all of that’s happening, what are some pitfalls? Or what are some do’s and don’ts that therapists should keep in mind when they’re hiring their first virtual assistant?

Evalyne Fagan: Well, first off, nowadays VAs are everywhere like I’m part of a few Facebook groups that have a whole bunch of new VAs. And I know of several, you know, agencies including my own, but I think the best way to land a great VA is through networking and word-of-mouth so that you know and have a reference to someone and their work. And someone knows that virtual assistant. That would be the first thing before you know hiring. Like really truly knowing their work and how seasoned they are. But as for like, you need to make sure that you spend the proper amount of time like, again, we want to clearly define what you intended your virtual assistant to take care of you. And we want to make sure that we’ve established a primary form of communication and expectations, but you need to take the time to train and be like for example, like my business Elevate You, we specialize in working with therapists and their group practices. So I orient my new team members to the most common platforms like simple practice, and you know, because we focus on intuitive eating and non diet, dieticians as well. I have like a quick training Health at Every Size PowerPoint for them, but because the VA is meant to be an extension of the therapist or dietician who wherever else, they have to commit the time and the training to spend and get to know their VA and for their VA to get to know them. Communication, spending time with your VA, and clearly defining your intent, I think clears up a lot of any potential pitfalls.

Attilio Di Nunno: That’s telling me that you should hire someone not when you’re at 100% capacity, but maybe when you’re like 80% to 90% capacity where it’s like we still have a little bit of space on the calendar because you always want to dedicate some time to someone. And so it’s better to hire someone a little bit earlier as you’re on the other on the come up versus later. Because otherwise you won’t be able to, 1, especially if it’s your first time, learn the skill to hire someone, learn the skill to train them. Because likely you’re probably gonna mess up the first time that you do something unless you’re really good or you have great mentors that have told you what to do. So putting the time in, like doesn’t go away. You still need to have that expectation. Communication is important whether you’re face-to-face or not. So it’s like communications, present with your VA, and taking the time to hire and train. Make sure that they’re set for the expectations for the role.

Evalyne Fagan: You worded that a lot better than me…

Attilio Di Nunno: Yeah…

Joshua Brummel: Speaking of skill as a business owner, and I’m sure Attilio you can think through this as well. When you hire your first virtual assistant, it could be a crapshoot unless you previously have the skill of like training, working with, and managing an employee or virtual assistant or a team atmosphere know that you’re trying to inquire a very important skill, but difficult skill of leadership and people managing and outsourcing and delegating and all these other things. I think back to the first VA that I ever hired, and if I think of how that relationship went I’m almost embarrassed because of how poorly it went and then say it was almost all my fault, like my management skills, my communication skills, what I was doing and not doing all of that stuff. And you know and know Attilio and I have talked about that as well where you know, almost any like entrepreneur I know actually, typically their first VA did not last very long. As a fault of that. So we want to avoid that. Any other recommendations on like someone’s dipping their toe in for the very first time a little bit more successful. Starting, delegating and outsourcing.

Evalyne Fagan: I would say okay, you do have to prepare for a VA. Maybe like write your tasks down. Video record yourself and your you know what you’re doing on the computer so that they can see and know even prior to meeting with you in the training just like a preview of what’s to come. But um, yeah, definitely preparing some material. And, again, setting your expectations for how you want things to be done…

Joshua Brummel: Well, one of our people did have a quick question and they were like “What does slack actually do?” So what is slack? Attilio? What does that look like?

Attilio Di Nunno: Yeah, basically, it’s like Teamspeak. It’s like discord or like, it’s like multiple text channels, I guess. And there’s a lot of like cool functions in there. You can set like channels for specific topics, and then you can also direct manage your team through like direct messages. Basically, it’s like it’s a great way to stay organized rather than just like texting your employees or emailing your employees. It’s like a great organization point. Evalyne you might have something else to add there too. I don’t know if you describe it to other people, but…

Evalyne Fagan: I just say it’s like Google, Google Chat on steroids. And you can integrate your Google Calendars into it and you have all these, you know, plugins or apps. I don’t know what they’re called, that you can I use polls a lot for my team, so that I can figure out you know, you know how they’re feeling, or what they’re thinking of, you know, when we have team meetings, what day works best, so, which is a better way to connect everyone.

Attilio Di Nunno: That’s a great point. But basically, it’s something that you should have, once you have maybe like one person that you’re working with, one or two people that you’re working with that way you can keep your communication one place and it’s free to start flow like literally everyone should just have it like if you have more than one person in your practice, just have slack. I think.

Joshua Brummel: I also don’t know of a similar software that does anything close to what Slack does, they’ve really taken communication in the workplace to a great level on those things. So…

Attilio Di Nunno: I think they’re an IPO. They’re pretty much the standard for team communication.

Joshua Brummel: Yeah. So it’s, it’s, I guess it’s like so native to how we run everything. It’s a little bit hard to describe in and of itself, but like messaging, clearing your email inbox, so you’re not bogged down by all that stuff. And just having designated like channels and routes to talk about certain facets and all the information layer to layer to like search, access, upload and kind of streamline. So as to kind of wrap up here. Tell us, Evalyne , if someone’s looking to hire VA, both with you, and other sources, because you said hey, maybe trying to find someone in your network some of those things. Tell us a little bit about the Getting Started process.

Evalyne Fagan: I mean, as far as networking, there’s not much else except for just talk and ask and, you know, tell everybody or people you’re talking to in your network, what you’re looking for and they might have a connection already. As far as like searching for somebody like online, I would go to something some reputable agency, or you know if you’re gonna go on, like go on Upwork or Fiverr or any of those I don’t know if I pronounced it but to them that they have like, references or they’ve done that type of work before.

Attilio Di Nunno: So what about contacting you, what’s the best way to contact you? Obviously, you’re a wealth of knowledge on the topic. So if someone was trying to get in contact with you. You know, just to see if you’re a good fit, what would it be for that process.

Evalyne Fagan: Yeah! They can email me. I can send over my email on Facebook, messaging or post you created. I can drop my email right there and they can can reach me through email on my website, www.elevateyouva.com

Attilio Di Nunno: Drop that down into the comments or something and I’m sure someone will see it. Maybe take advantage of you as a resource and as a virtual assistant.

Evalyne Fagan: Yeah, I’d be glad to help out so…

Joshua Brummel: Well, Evalyne thanks for coming on. Thanks for sharing a little bit about your story and just kind of the, the processes people should take to hire a virtual assistant. As we wrap up here, any last words or advice to anyone on this topic?

Evalyne Fagan: Um, you know, just just give it a go. Be confident in yourself and that you can train and hire the right person to help you out because you don’t want to get to that spot where you’re just completely burnt out and dreaming about work and dreading your career choices. You don’t ever want to get to that point where you don’t even enjoy things anymore. So just you know, knowing when you need help, I guess and know when you need support. Don’t be afraid to reach out.

Joshua Brummel: That’s awesome.

Evalyne Fagan: Thank you for having me.

Joshua Brummel: Of course.

Attilio Di Nunno: Thanks for coming on.